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  #1  
Old 07-09-2010, 04:25 PM
vernz vernz is offline
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Default Tips on droppng 430 pan while on my back?

Before I run my '60 430 much more I want to drop the oil pan and make sure the screen is clear. I need to do this with the car on the ground and I'm not looking forward to that. I know I need to jack up the engine and put a small block of 2x4 under the mounts and unbolt the pick up tube. Eventually, I will rebuild the engine as she smokes a bit, but I'd like to be able to drive it this year. Does anybody have any tips for doing this job laying on your back?

I had the pan off of my '59 430, but at that time I had access to a lift.

Also, I'm not usually into snake oil treatments for engines, but I've read some good stuff about sea foam. I'm thinking of running the engine with that in the oil for an hour or so before dropping the pan. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks, Vern
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  #2  
Old 07-09-2010, 04:47 PM
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Howard Prout Howard Prout is offline
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The book says the crank should be 14 deg. BTDC. If you have A/C be careful not to have the bell housing hit the plenum. Otherwise, it is straight forward.
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  #3  
Old 07-09-2010, 04:54 PM
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simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
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I can't imagine pulling the pan without the front frame hoisted high on jackstands, and the rear wheels chocked. Even then, I give the body a good hard shake to judge stability. You need arm freedom to work with tools. I'm sure you know, from doing the last one on a lift.

You can use two methods to raise the engine:
Jack it from underneath, or
Lift it from the manifolds with an overhead cherry picker or gantry and a couple straps. It's important to use the wood as discussed.

Either way, the frame should be on jackstands. Ramps won't do very well because as you pull the engine up, the body will follow. Setting the engine back on her perches won't be as easy unless the body is solid.

I wouldn't use anything in my oil. If you can scrape & steam-clean, or power wash the engine, even though it's messy, do that because water won't harm your engine. I have used a garden hose on mine, just to wash metal chips away. Let it dry before re-assembly. If a small amount of water remains it will evaporate with engine heat, the same as condensation does in the spring.

The proper way to engine clean is to boil the block, which should happen when you rebuild it in future. - Dave
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  #4  
Old 07-09-2010, 07:58 PM
KULTULZ
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vernz View Post

Before I run my '60 430 much more I want to drop the oil pan and make sure the screen is clear.

Also, I'm not usually into snake oil treatments for engines, but I've read some good stuff about sea foam. I'm thinking of running the engine with that in the oil for an hour or so before dropping the pan. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks, Vern
SEA FOAM - http://www.seafoamsales.com/how-to-u...treatment.html - is a much respected product. The trouble with engine flushes is that they (it) will sometimes break a lot of sludge loose and subsequently block the oil pump pick-up screen.

But you are dropping your pan so you should (after all of this trouble) replace the pump and screen (Mellings) and of course clean the pan.

Make sure the road draft system is functional and some of the smoking may stop. Use a GOOD QUALITY 10W-30 engine oil.
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  #5  
Old 07-09-2010, 08:34 PM
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partsetal partsetal is offline
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The 1960 430 would have left the factory with a vacuum pump attached to the oil pump. If you still want to retain this for your wipers, then the Melling pump will not work. The only source for these pumps that accept the vacuum pump was Ford, and unless you can find a NOS one, you're out of luck. The Melling M-57 pump will work, but you lose the vacuum setup and I've heard that a modification to the pan baffle is required to use the old pick up tube. Melling does not list a pick up tube for this application.
Perhaps other pumps/gears/pick up tubes have been adapted, but I'm not aware of any.
Carl
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  #6  
Old 07-09-2010, 10:03 PM
KULTULZ
 
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Good Point!
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  #7  
Old 07-09-2010, 11:00 PM
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10W-30 is no good by itself, either. Not even Mobil-1. If you buy oil with (..40 or more) in the numbers like 15W-40, it will have enough zinc for your flat tappet cam.

Check out Mobil's chart for ZDDP content. We need 1,000 PPM or more in our oil.

The oil companies re-formulated oil to meet catalytic converter pollution requirements by removing zinc. Since modern engines use roller cams there is no adverse affects.

Classic car engines were built with flat tappet cams, to the old oil standards. Now, there is a problem.

I use Shell Rotella-T 15W-40, which is rated for diesel engines, and it far exceeds the API requirements for our classic engines.

You can use an additive to regular oil (if you can find any), which will boost the ZDDP numbers. I have seen "classic car oil" for sale at ten bucks per quart, which is a rip-off. Texaco and a number of companies make diesel oils that work great if the viscosity includes 40 or above. - Dave
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Last edited by simplyconnected : 07-09-2010 at 11:11 PM.
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  #8  
Old 07-10-2010, 05:16 AM
KULTULZ
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simplyconnected View Post

10W-30 is no good by itself, either. Not even Mobil-1. If you buy oil with (..40 or more) in the numbers like 15W-40, it will have enough zinc for your flat tappet cam.

Check out Mobil's chart for ZDDP content. We need 1,000 PPM or more in our oil.

The oil companies re-formulated oil to meet catalytic converter pollution requirements by removing zinc. Since modern engines use roller cams there is no adverse affects.

Classic car engines were built with flat tappet cams, to the old oil standards. Now, there is a problem.
Correct you are, but any pre-SM oil will suffice.

Quote:
I use Shell Rotella-T 15W-40, which is rated for diesel engines, and it far exceeds the API requirements for our classic engines.

You can use an additive to regular oil (if you can find any), which will boost the ZDDP numbers. I have seen "classic car oil" for sale at ten bucks per quart, which is a rip-off. Texaco and a number of companies make diesel oils that work great if the viscosity includes 40 or above.

- Dave
You need to recheck the specs on ROTELLA as the new blends are low on zinc due to heavy diesel going to particulate traps.

From LINC FORUM-

Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Just came across this info from a AMSOIL TECH SHEET-

Quote:
The American Petroleum Institute (API) and International Lubricants Standards Approval Committee (ILSAC), have mandated the reduction of phosphorus to extend catalytic converter life. However, reducing the level of ZDDP can compromise protection to engine components, most notably in flat tappet camshafts.

Current API SM and ILSAC GF-4 specifications for gasoline engines have maximum and minimum phosphorus levels of 800 ppm and 600 ppm, respectively, for SAE 0W-20, SAE 5W-20, SAE 0W-30, SAE 5W-30 and SAE 10W-30 motor oils. All other gasoline SAE grades do not have a mandated phosphorus limit.
I believe that they are just restricting the oils most commonly used in today's car technology.
Also-

Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Quote:
In the Fall of 2010, a new oil spec called GF-5 is being introduced. The new standards will increase fuel economy and emissions as well as make it more compatible with E85 ethanol. Because experts say it will not have been tested in race applications, however, it’s critical that the engine building community is aware of the changes. The wear protection has not been lowered but the types of zinc and phosphorous may be altered to meet the new requirements.

“The current oil classifications are API SM/ILSAC GF-4 for spark ignited gasoline engines,” says Joe Gibbs’ Speed. “For the 2011 model year, GM is introducing dexos 1, a global engine oil specification for all GM cars and trucks. The new dexos 1 oil standard will require the use of synthetic base stocks, and it requires increased protection for catalytic converters compared to API SM. As a result, API is introducing a new oil standard – API SN / ILSAC GF-5. These new standards require improved engine cleanliness (more detergents and dispersants), improved fuel economy (lower viscosity base oils) and increased protection for three way catalytic converters (restriction on the type of ZDDP used).”

If your engines aren’t ready for retirement yet, it pays to pay attention to what keeps them running smoothly and efficiently.
From Tech Article (MUST READ)- http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti...continues.aspx
Also- http://www.zddplus.com/

Complete Oil Discussion Thread @ LINC FORUM-

- http://www.thelincolnforum.net/phpbb...hp?f=1&t=18359
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  #9  
Old 07-10-2010, 05:42 AM
KULTULZ
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by partsetal View Post

The 1960 430 would have left the factory with a vacuum pump attached to the oil pump. If you still want to retain this for your wipers, then the Melling pump will not work.

The only source for these pumps that accept the vacuum pump was Ford, and unless you can find a NOS one, you're out of luck.

The Melling M-57 pump will work, but you lose the vacuum setup and I've heard that a modification to the pan baffle is required to use the old pick up tube. Melling does not list a pick up tube for this application.

Perhaps other pumps/gears/pick up tubes have been adapted, but I'm not aware of any.

Carl
Yep- C0ME 6600-C (NOT REPLACED)

I a$$-u-med that the FE pump would work. I am grateful that you pointed this out to me (and others).

EGGE REMAN SERVICE-
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  #10  
Old 07-10-2010, 06:21 AM
KULTULZ
 
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Post

SOURCED From- http://www.hemmings.com/hcc/stories/...rs_guide1.html

Quote:
Herb Scheffer, president of The Lincoln/Mercury Old Parts Store and a specialist in 1958-'60 Lincolns, explains: "Mechanically, this is a real 'stone crusher' engine. It's the same with the transmission--they will both continue to work, even when they're not in good shape. These engines have the same normal problems as those in other cars of the same age--sticking rings and valves, development of sludge.

"Most all of the mechanical parts you'd need have been reproduced," Herb says. "The valves, pistons, rings, bearings and gasket sets are still available, and you can get over-sized pistons, and standard and plus-.010, plus-.020 bearings.

"A few people still re-grind camshafts. There are kits to rebuild the power steering pump, the fuel pump and carburetors, and there are people who still redo rocker shafts and rebuild rocker arms. Other than today's Edelbrock carburetors, which resemble Carter AFBs, there are no replacement carburetors available today that work well with these engines."

Despite the general availability of parts, there are a few mechanical parts that will prove challenging or expensive to source,

...like the vacuum pump at the bottom of the oil pump, but Herb has been recreating some discontinued parts in small batches.

When it comes to upgrades, he recommends installing a PerTronix ignition system ("They're very forgiving on older cars").

Although few performance upgrades are available for the 430 V-8s, Herb has installed some ultra-rare 1958 "Super Marauder" triple two-barrel carburetor sets, along with the hi-po AC fuel pump he's recreated; the pairing bumps horsepower to 400 at 4,600 RPM. Herb notes, "This setup was only available through the dealer for both Mercurys and Lincolns, and the Lincoln air cleaner was slightly different from the Mercury version--I've made a replacement."
The Lincoln/Mercury Old Parts Store
888-500-9717
www.lincolnoldparts.com

NOS, used and reproduction mechanical, body and trim parts, restoration services
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