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  • piCARso
    Newbie
    • Jan 19 2009
    • 6

    My Future THunderbird?

    I would like to respectively ask the Thunderbird community to share your knowledge and experience with me. I am a middle aged man who appreciates the past and beautiful objects. I am looking at T-birds from 58-66. I like the 60 very much but need an honest appraisal of what to expect from this 48 year old car. I have heard there can be electrical issues and they are heavy and non-responsive. Are the drum brakes an issue? What other weaknesses should I be aware of ? What would be the optimum set up (engine size, etc.) for the best performing bird? I love the dash, sculpted interior and two toned colors. Some have suggested moving forward to the 65's and 66's with improving technology (disc brakes). I don't find them unattractive but the 1960 has an element of stylishness that they don't have. I realize 50 year old cars will not have all the bells and whistles of todays cars but I still need your advice about what to expect, the good and the bad. Thanks
  • byersmtrco
    Super-Experienced
    • Sep 28 2004
    • 1839

    #2
    Welcome!!!

    There are upgrades. I have a 60 convertible that my father purchased brand new. It's always been a "sleeper" When I was a kid around 11 (I'm a 1960 model as well) He put a juiced up 390 in it.

    I have kept the hopped up 390 tradition alive. Only a true Ford guy can tell it's not the stk 352 in there. I have a 4 row radiator with a 7 blade flex fan and a shroud (that does not look original)
    I've upgraded to disc brakes, frt & rr heavy sway bars and a few other minor mods. I can say it drives betterr than the (cherry) 65 Thunderbird I had. But for the most part it looks stock. The only outward appearance is the KH wire wheels. I have a set of different wheels & tires, I just haven't put them on yet. They will look (sort of) stock too.
    Look at 59's !!

    Good Luck
    Attached Files

    Comment

    • Guest

      #3
      Hi Newbie

      I like the 58-60 best they have style better that any others,ride great
      Bob M
      Attached Files

      Comment

      • Guest

        #4
        piCARso.Welcome to the site.The only real problem you must look for on a squarebird is the frame.These cars are unibodies,so you must be sure the frame rails are not rotted where they meet the body.As far as the electrical anyone with a basic knowledge (me for instance) should have no real troubles.There is no fuse box,all systems are fuses separately.Most elec. problems are normally ground related.If you can find one with a 430 you will have a runner.Mine had a 352 and it still ran real strong.They are fun to work on and fun to drive.(once you learn how to get into it without banging your knees.LOL,you have to sit down in the seat them swing your legs in.)
        Have fun and you know where to go for any questions.

        Comment

        • Guest

          #5
          WOW Bob,what a great job you have done on your ride.You must be very proud.

          Comment

          • RustyNCa
            Super-Experienced
            • May 31 2007
            • 1370

            #6
            Welcome, you came to the right place to get help and support in your quest for a bird.

            I have both a 58 and a 65. I can say that the 58 feels quicker and lighter to me than the 65. The 65 feels more like a cruising road car where the 58 has a lighter more responsive feel to it. The 58 has more road noise and feel to it than the 65, where the 65 runs down the freeway at 80 with all the comfort in the world.

            Both of my cars have 390's in them, the 58's motor has a cam, etc. while the 65 is all stock.

            On my 58, I can't say how the drum brakes worked, they were a rusted up mess when I picked up the car, so I went straight to disc. I haven't had any electrical issues other than burnt up power window motors, the electrical is pretty simple and straight forward it seems to me. I upgraded the front sway bar and went with stiffer shocks, huge improvement.

            I find the 65 to be more of a classical smooth looking car, while the 58 is an in your face look at me type of car. The 58 to 60 body has very interesting lines and detail where I find the 65 to be a much smoother refined version of the squarebird. I like the both for completely different reasons. The 58 body is more me, the 65 is what my GF likes to drive.




            Comment

            • JohnG
              John
              • Jul 28 2003
              • 2341

              #7
              hi Greg
              Welcome to the site!

              The downsides of the Squarebirds (58-60) that one might consider improving, in my opinion, are:

              * brakes. Should be disk; just not powerful enough
              * cooling system: marginal, depending on where you live and how you drive. Easy improvements available
              * ignition system: wimpy coil should be replaced at the very least. Pertronix system a good idea.
              * fuel economy not great. Better ignition system, careful tuning help
              * wipers: hope it doesn't rain...
              * chrome: lotta chrome to get refinished ($)

              Upside: wonderful styling very appreciated by the general public, even if not by car "purists" (as it committed the unpardonable sin of replacing the 55-57 two seater). A friend of mine says that riding around in it is like traveling with a rock star. Everywhere you stop, you draw attention.

              john
              1958 Hardtop
              #8452 TBird Registry
              http://tbird.info/registry/DataSheet...r~equals~8452)

              photo: http://www.squarebirds.org/users/joh...d_June2009.jpg
              history:
              http://www.squarebirds.org/users/johng/OCC.htm

              Comment

              • Penelope
                Super-Experienced
                • Mar 4 2008
                • 670

                #8
                Welcome Greg, I am also a (sigh) middle aged man who appreciates past & beautiful objects (I collect fine art also) and agree with you wholeheartedly that the 58 to 60 models are far more stylish than their later counterparts, but each to their own and respect to lovers of other years.

                There is little doubt that these cars do have some idiosyncrasies, but I think its half the fun of owning one. The wonderful part is the joy they bring you and everyone else by just driving them down the road.

                I hope that you pick well when you buy and have no doubt in saying that whatever issue you come up with, the members of this forum will solve it - their knowledge base is second to none.
                sigpicBill
                Thunderbird Registry 21903 & 33405

                Comment

                • Guest

                  #9
                  1960 Thunderbird

                  HEY!
                  I've got a 1978 Diamond Jubilee Edition Thunderbird and just purchase a 1960 Thunderbird. The Jubilee has more sentimental value and I will not drive her. She is probably a number three or maybe a number two car. She was my first love. I always wanted a 1960 Thunderbird, they have class and are just a gorgeous car. I finally bought one and went to Chicago Illinois and picked her up and drove her 400 miles and the only problem I had was a power steering hose came loose. My son rode back with me and we had a ball. Driving down the interstate people looking, thumbs up and some even took pictures. Every time we stopped someone would ask, what model is she or they would have some comment, always good. He made the comment several times "this is so cool" I know some of the guys will disagree with me but I think the '60 is the the nicer car of the three ('58-'60) Don't get me wrong the Thunderbirds all are beautiful cars. I have had a few issues with he since I got her home, but I enjoy working on her. I walk by her and rub on her, my wife has caught me a couple of times and said will you stop that! I hope you get a little more information before you make a decision. And I hope you decide to get a Thunderbird! GOOD LUCK! And oh by the way these guys on here are great, you would not believe the valuable information that they share.

                  Comment

                  • byersmtrco
                    Super-Experienced
                    • Sep 28 2004
                    • 1839

                    #10
                    Originally posted by TChicken
                    piCARso.Welcome to the site.The only real problem you must look for on a squarebird is the frame.These cars are unibodies,so you must be sure the frame rails are not rotted where they meet the body.As far as the electrical anyone with a basic knowledge (me for instance) should have no real troubles.There is no fuse box,all systems are fuses separately.Most elec. problems are normally ground related.If you can find one with a 430 you will have a runner.Mine had a 352 and it still ran real strong.They are fun to work on and fun to drive.(once you learn how to get into it without banging your knees.LOL,you have to sit down in the seat them swing your legs in.)
                    Have fun and you know where to go for any questions.
                    As my mom used to say "You don't get in, you put it on"

                    Comment

                    • piCARso
                      Newbie
                      • Jan 19 2009
                      • 6

                      #11
                      Thank you for so warmly welcoming me to your site. I have languished unhappily for weeks at another site with little encouragement or enthusiasm for the Birds and have felt disappointed and discouraged by the negative comments: poor performance, sloopy handling and other issues ( idiosyncrasies ) that you have mentioned. The negative comments stung. I don't have a lot of money , if I am lucky I have one vintage car in me. I have bounced around looking at various models (non Birds) suggested by informed sources but I keep coming back to your cars. I can change a fuse but otherwise I have no mechanical abilities. I don't need matching numbers, I need a reliable Sunday driver that is not going to be a headache and financial drain. I live in Maine so the season is short. Your council is so appreciated. I need a Bird that is in full flight with the upgrades that will make her soar. I am making notes so please know that even the smallest detail will be helpful in my future choice. Please keep your suggestions coming. Thanks, Greg

                      Comment

                      • bcomo
                        Super-Experienced
                        • Sep 23 2005
                        • 1223

                        #12
                        Greg:

                        Welcome to our forum. You're wise to do this kind of investigation before buying any classic car.

                        I've thought very hard about your situation, and would like to give you my thoughts based on 3 years of personal experience with my 60 T-Bird Hard Top.

                        I, like you, fell in love with the 60 model year. I am 65 yrs old, and have worked on cars since I was 14. I've never had a garage to work in, and all of my automotive work is done on my back on concrete. I live in Texas, so the heat of summer at 95 to 100 makes it tough and sweaty. I'm retired and have a small income from the Air Force, and Social Security. I'm married, with 2 young girls age 10 and 14 -- what a trip.

                        What I do have is a lot of tools, mechanical ability, and I tackle what I can do by myself because I can't afford to have it fixed by someone else. I would have never survived without the help of my friends on Squarebirds (thanks guys).

                        If you decide to buy a T-Bird, or any classic car, you have to get a shop manual, and be willing and able to do as much work on it yourself as possible. Most of the parts can only be gotten from T-Bird vendors, and there aren't many car repair garages that even know how to work on T-Birds. A mechanic who was 25 when the T-Bird was built is now 73.

                        As an example, you said that you could change a fuse. But there is no fuse box on a 58-60 T-Bird. All of the fuses are in-line, mixed in with the spaghetti wiring that is behind the instrument panel behind the dash. To change the fuse for the brake lights required one member to remove the gas/temperature gauge to be able to find the fuse.

                        If that scares you, then think about changing a generator, or a starter, carburetor, brakes, or gas tank. Those are some of the easier things that most of these guys have done on their back to keep their bird alive.

                        I'm not saying that you can't do these things, but it will take your willingness to do it yourself, and tools to do it, or it will drain your bank account in a New York minute. The forum can only support you with words of experience.

                        You asked about handling. No, they don't handle like a new car. There is no rack and pinion steering, and the stock drum brakes make you a very cautious driver to say the least. You can add disk brakes yourself, but it will cost you about $1000 for the parts alone, plus the addition of larger wheels, and also a new set of tires to fit. I'm a pureist, so I opted to keep mine all stock -- to each his own.

                        The 58-60 does have a problem with cooling. Most of us feel that the radiator was designed too small. At temperatures above 80, being in stop and go traffic can cause boil over and engine overheating. That can be helped by the addition of a fan with more blades and an electric fan if possible. Still, it's not a guarantee.

                        The 58-60 also has a problem with a somewhat sloppy shift linkage and/or worn Detent Plate that allows it to slip out of Park. Some of the slop can be fixed, but not all. Replacing the shift "Detent Plate" will fix the Park situation. It requires pulling the steering wheel, and is well documented in the Tech section.

                        Moving on --- what 60 should you buy, and how much?

                        IMO I would stay away from a convertible. They are beautiful, but the hydraulic system is very costly to repair, and in your case would be a bad choice. They can get stuck in the up or down position, of worse -- in between.

                        All other things being equal, it's your personal choice as to if you want a completely stock or modified T-Bird.

                        As far as what to spend. I would put as much money up front into buying a turn key well restored car. Even at that; expect to invest more money when something needs repair. Remember -- if it hasn't been repaired or replaced in 48 years, you will probably have to fix it sometime.

                        In todays market, you should be able to find a very nice Sunday driver requiring just general upkeep for about $15,000 You could find one for less or even more. You have to very cautious and look past the "Bling". Be more inerested in the mechanical soundness than the nice paint job. Ask if they kept receipts for the work, and take someone who is a GOOD mechanic with you -- someone who will tell you NO and walk away.

                        IMO E-Bay is a good place to look for pricing and photos, but not for buying unless you can drive to the car to inspect it.

                        You are at a disadvantage as a first time T-Bird buyer. We know what to look for now that we've been through it. But, like you, we all wish that we knew then what we know now.

                        If you decide to buy a Squarebird, maybe one of the members lives in driving range of a car that you might want to look at. You should post what city that you live in.

                        Personally, I have $28,000 or more (I lost track after that) invested in my 60 HT. As of last week, it is totally finished and restored. New engine, transmission, rear axle, front end, brake system, radiator, generator, starter, carburetor, tires, chrome, new paint job -- amoung many, many other replaced items.

                        So, what would mine be worth, after all of that -- probably $20,000 -- in a good market. Unless you got it for free, you will not get the money you invested back out of it. When they say, "a labor of love", they mean exactly that !!
                        Last edited by bcomo; January 23, 2009, 11:48 AM.
                        Bart
                        1960 Hard Top/430
                        Thunderbird Registry Number 1231

                        Comment

                        • fomoco59
                          Super-Experienced
                          • Jun 10 2005
                          • 729

                          #13
                          Well put, Bart.
                          sigpic
                          Mike Lemmon
                          '59 Raven Black Hardtop

                          http://www.tbirdregistry.com/viewdat...tryNumber=2461

                          Comment

                          • JohnG
                            John
                            • Jul 28 2003
                            • 2341

                            #14
                            Bart, good job!!


                            Greg: good luck!


                            john
                            Last edited by JohnG; January 23, 2009, 06:22 PM.
                            1958 Hardtop
                            #8452 TBird Registry
                            http://tbird.info/registry/DataSheet...r~equals~8452)

                            photo: http://www.squarebirds.org/users/joh...d_June2009.jpg
                            history:
                            http://www.squarebirds.org/users/johng/OCC.htm

                            Comment

                            • Guest

                              #15
                              Very well put. You have to really like these t-birds, and who doesn't!!! Just find one without alot of rust. Like trunk, floors, rockers and quarter panels. Gezz sounds like mine.

                              Comment

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