This will take you to the main site where there is history, technical information and other information on these cars.
This takes you back to the main page of the forums.
This is the control panel to change your password, information and preferences on this message board.
Click here if your lost your password or need to register on this message board. You must be a registered user to post. Registration is free.
Search this board for information you need.
Click here to buy cool Squarebirds mechandise.
Click here to support Squarebirds.org. For $20 annually receive 20mBytes webspace, a Squarebirds e-mail address and member's icon on the message board.
  #1  
Old 03-26-2017, 06:47 PM
Bird-in-the-bush's Avatar
Bird-in-the-bush Bird-in-the-bush is offline
Greener than grass
 
Join Date: Feb 26 2017
Posts: 17
Bird-in-the-bush is on a distinguished road
Default Help please. Electrical

Hi. So I went down the street for a cruise, came home, restarted the car, which turned over more then usual, I smelt burning plastic, shut the car off, popped the hood, and noticed the yellow wire from the solenoid down to the Gen, and from the Gen, all the across the radiator bottom support, and up to the voltage regulator...all FRIED! Completely melted, just bare copper wire laying there. What the H e double hockey sticks is going on here?
Did I crank it over too long?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-26-2017, 07:28 PM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
Slow Typist
 
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,066
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road
Default

I assume we're talking about a Squarebird... If the wire was fried from the Generator; the small wire is your field, the large wire is your armature. Both have windings inside your generator.

Evidently, one of these shorted to ground.
Your charging system has NOTING to do with your starting system. Cranking could not have damaged your generator. - Dave
__________________
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-26-2017, 07:45 PM
Bird-in-the-bush's Avatar
Bird-in-the-bush Bird-in-the-bush is offline
Greener than grass
 
Join Date: Feb 26 2017
Posts: 17
Bird-in-the-bush is on a distinguished road
Default

Yes '60 Squarebird. The yellow wire from the starter solenoid runs down to the Gen, also melted and fried. That's why I was asking. I've heard of poorly grounded starters causing problems like this, but I'm no auto electrical wizard. So you think it was something inside the Gen? Or possibly one of the wires grounded out on the rad support? It is original wiring. Thank you for the help. I'm new to birds.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-26-2017, 07:49 PM
jopizz's Avatar
jopizz jopizz is offline
Excellent Auto Mechanic for over 40 years.
 
Join Date: Nov 23 2009
Posts: 4,744
jopizz is on a distinguished road
Default

The yellow wire should go from the solenoid to the voltage regulator and then from the voltage regulator to the generator. If it goes from the solenoid directly to the generator then it's wired wrong.

John
__________________
John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator
1959 Convertible

Thunderbird Registry #36223
jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-26-2017, 09:03 PM
Bird-in-the-bush's Avatar
Bird-in-the-bush Bird-in-the-bush is offline
Greener than grass
 
Join Date: Feb 26 2017
Posts: 17
Bird-in-the-bush is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jopizz View Post
The yellow wire should go from the solenoid to the voltage regulator and then from the voltage regulator to the generator. If it goes from the solenoid directly to the generator then it's wired wrong.

John
Definitely wired wrong then. Going off of the wiring schematics from the technical resource library, and what you just mentioned, I'm pretty sure it was wired entirely wrong.
Can I go off of the diagram in the library to rewire the whole front end of my bird? What I'm asking is, is there anything missing from the wiring diagram? I will attempt this with new wire, cut and crimped myself. I just don't know what the gauges were before they melted, and its really hard to tell now... Would be cool if the wiring diagrams also stated the gauge of wire.
1960 Thunderbird hdtp 352, no A/C.
Everything works (or did for that matter) except the door switches for the dome light.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-26-2017, 10:18 PM
jopizz's Avatar
jopizz jopizz is offline
Excellent Auto Mechanic for over 40 years.
 
Join Date: Nov 23 2009
Posts: 4,744
jopizz is on a distinguished road
Default

The wiring diagram is correct. The yellow wire is pretty heavy. I suspect it's probably 8-10 gauge. It's the thickest wire in the entire car besides the battery cables.

John
__________________
John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator
1959 Convertible

Thunderbird Registry #36223
jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-26-2017, 10:30 PM
jopizz's Avatar
jopizz jopizz is offline
Excellent Auto Mechanic for over 40 years.
 
Join Date: Nov 23 2009
Posts: 4,744
jopizz is on a distinguished road
Default

The yellow wire from the solenoid to the voltage regulator is 10 gauge per the shop manual.

John
Attached Images
File Type: jpg gen wiring.jpg (42.6 KB, 93 views)
__________________
John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator
1959 Convertible

Thunderbird Registry #36223
jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-26-2017, 11:50 PM
Bird-in-the-bush's Avatar
Bird-in-the-bush Bird-in-the-bush is offline
Greener than grass
 
Join Date: Feb 26 2017
Posts: 17
Bird-in-the-bush is on a distinguished road
Default

I sure do appreciate the help. And thank you for the gauge info.
I'm just curious as to why it decided to burn out now. After driving for 1000 miles after purchasing the car. It must have been a wire that rubbed through and grounded itself.
Funny thing, last night I lost headlights and pulled the dimmer out to get a good ground to it, and installed it. Drove the car for 20 miles, and then this happened just by starting it for 5 seconds. It just seems odd to me. If the ibwas wired wrong, wouldn't it have burnt out miles ago, or at first start up?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-27-2017, 12:27 AM
jopizz's Avatar
jopizz jopizz is offline
Excellent Auto Mechanic for over 40 years.
 
Join Date: Nov 23 2009
Posts: 4,744
jopizz is on a distinguished road
Default

I kind of doubt that it's wired wrong. If so you would've noticed it before. The GEN light would certainly be on if it was wired incorrectly. The wires go into the harness so it's difficult to tell which direction they go. The main wire on the generator is yellow with a black stripe, not plain yellow. The wires that run along the top of the cross member in front of the radiator are exposed to a lot of heat so it's not unusual for the insulation to become brittle and crack. I would rerun all the wires and then use an ohmmeter to check for grounds or shorts before I started the car again.

John
__________________
John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator
1959 Convertible

Thunderbird Registry #36223
jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-27-2017, 01:31 AM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
Slow Typist
 
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,066
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bird-in-the-bush View Post
...Funny thing, last night I lost headlights and pulled the dimmer out to get a good ground to it, and installed it...
Nothing on the headlight switch or headlight dimmer switch has or needs a ground. All wires to both switches are 'power' wires and neither switch needs a 'case ground'.

If what you say is true, that wires burned up starting at the generator, continuing through the voltage regulator, and on to the solenoid switch; if all those wires cooked then the generator AND the regulator need to be tested with a common multimeter for grounds. Your fault ground must have started at the generator, for that entire path to be destroyed. Is there any portion of wire in that path that is NOT burned? If not, where is it?

#10 wire safely carries 30 amps continuously. Your voltage regulator is also rated for 30 amps. Cooked wires carried at least twice that current. This is a major ground fault, not a frayed wire that touched the chassis.

19-strand #10AWG THHN wire (from Home depot) is ok to use along the body of your car because it doesn't move around. THHN (thermoplastic insulation) is rated for 60C (or 140-degrees F). Use this wire from the starter solenoid to the voltage regulator. They sell yellow OR you can cover any color wire with yellow electrical tape.

I would make my own wire harness. Generators generally have a wire harness with two #10 and one #16 wires. The #10 wires are for the armature and ground. The smaller wire is a field wire. All three start at the generator and end at the voltage regulator so, this harness is normally taped into a cable assembly. I realize the schematic shows #18 for the black ground wire but I always use ground wires equal to the size of my power wires.

I'm sure you will have more questions as you test your components, before applying power. - Dave
__________________
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:45 AM.

Driving, racing or working on cars can be hazardous. The procedures and advice on this website including the message board are opinion only. Squarebirds.org and its webmasters and contributors do not guarantee the correctness of the advice and procedures. The Squarebirds.org and its webmasters assume no liability for any damage, fines, punishment, injury or death resulting from following these procedures or advice. If you do not have the skills or tools to repair your car, please consult a professional. By using this site you agree to hold harmless the Squarebirds.org, its authors and its webmasters from any resulting claim and costs that may occur from using the information found on this site.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Any submissions to this site and any post on this site becomes property of Squarebirds.org . The webmasters reserve the right to edit and modify any submissions to this site. All material on this is site is copyrighted by the Squarebirds.org. Reproduction by any means other than for personal use is strictly prohibited. Permission to use material on this site can be obtained by contacting the webmasters. Copyright 2002-2016 by Squarebirds.org.