This will take you to the main site where there is history, technical information and other information on these cars.
This takes you back to the main page of the forums.
This is the control panel to change your password, information and preferences on this message board.
Click here if your lost your password or need to register on this message board. You must be a registered user to post. Registration is free.
Search this board for information you need.
Click here to buy cool Squarebirds mechandise.
Click here to support Squarebirds.org. For $20 annually receive 20mBytes webspace, a Squarebirds e-mail address and member's icon on the message board.
  #1  
Old 01-09-2016, 12:52 PM
JoeVac JoeVac is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 8 2016
Posts: 7
JoeVac is on a distinguished road
Default Another Brake Problem

Been fighting a brake problem for a few weeks now, soft pedal and pedal wouldnt return all the way up. Had to pull it up the last inch with my foot, if I didnt, front brakes would be locked.
Replaced all hard lines and front and rear flex lines.
Bought a new master cylinder and the reservoir seemed much larger than the old one. Come to find out, the old one was the type with the screw on cap from a 64 tbird,,my car is a 65. Further checking, found the booster to be from a 64 as well, new booster ordered. The old booster is the midland type.
Is there a preference between the midland or the bendix booster.
when new booster is in will check pushrod lenght, re bench bleed MC and bleed brakes,,again.
If anyone has any thoughts on this I sure would appreciate it.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-09-2016, 02:40 PM
jopizz's Avatar
jopizz jopizz is offline
Excellent Auto Mechanic for over 40 years.
 
Join Date: Nov 23 2009
Posts: 4,749
jopizz is on a distinguished road
Default

There should be no difference whether you order the Midland booster or the Bendix booster. Both were used by the factory in '65 with disc brakes. I'm most familiar with the Midland booster. That seems to be the more common one in '65 and '66. At least on ones that I've owned. The Ford parts book shows the '64 style master cylinder being used with disc brakes but I've never had one. The cars I've had all had the larger master cylinder with the clamp top. Do you have an early production '65. They may have carried it over from '64.

John
__________________
John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator
1959 Convertible

Thunderbird Registry #36223
jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-09-2016, 03:42 PM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
Slow Typist
 
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,068
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road
Default

Joe, whenever you marry a booster with a new master, the 'fit' is rarely the same as original. A proper setup must be performed as described in the Shop Manual.

A new brake system is rather easy to troubleshoot. Leave the master OFF the booster and have someone press your brake pedal. Watch, and see what happens with the booster's output shaft. It should move immediately when the pedal is depressed and it should move freely.

Let's talk further after you bench bleed your new M/C. - Dave
__________________
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-09-2016, 10:09 PM
Yadkin Yadkin is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 11 2012
Posts: 1,910
Yadkin is on a distinguished road
Default

My first thought, why are you using a single master? A leak anywhere and you have no brakes, in a fast heavy car.

A new booster and dual master, Tuff Stuff 213, is available at Summit Racing for $180 to your door. Here's a thread on its installation. http://squarebirds.org/vbulletin/sho...31&postcount=1
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-10-2016, 11:48 AM
JoeVac JoeVac is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 8 2016
Posts: 7
JoeVac is on a distinguished road
Default

Data tag on door says car was built in april of 65, so maybe it was a carryover of parts from 64. Wanted to keep car original but the more I thought about that single MC the more I doubted its safety. Just might get the TuffStuff setup and be done with it. Anyone need a new single MC? Thanks for all the help, will post results soon.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-11-2016, 03:30 AM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
Slow Typist
 
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,068
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road
Default

April is late in the model year. If a part is used from the prior year it could be for two reasons:
  1. There was no change in the part.
  2. New parts were not available.

When the last car from a model year rolls off the line, Material Handling removes all the stock so Maintenance can clean, retool and paint the production areas.

Racks and baskets of parts to be balanced out go to the Parts Depots around the country to be repackaged and sold through the dealerships.

The Process Engineers may move some operations to different areas of the line because the new job requires more or fewer workers.

Then, carryover parts come back to the line and so do new model parts. It is rare that Ford makes product 'running changes' in the middle of the production year but it boosts sales, like the 1985-1/2 Ford Thunderbird. - Dave
__________________
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-11-2016, 12:04 PM
JoeVac JoeVac is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 8 2016
Posts: 7
JoeVac is on a distinguished road
Default

Good info,,my initial thought was that someone didnt know exactly what year the car was, or got a deal on 64 parts and replaced booster and MC. They cant be original after 50 years.
In either case, going to replace them with 65 parts and probably go dual MC route.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-11-2016, 12:24 PM
jopizz's Avatar
jopizz jopizz is offline
Excellent Auto Mechanic for over 40 years.
 
Join Date: Nov 23 2009
Posts: 4,749
jopizz is on a distinguished road
Default

The only problem you'll have with the dual master cylinder is the brace that goes from the firewall to the shock tower. You'll have to modify the brace to get it to clear.

John
__________________
John Pizzi - Squarebirds Administrator
1959 Convertible

Thunderbird Registry #36223
jopizz@verizon.net 856-779-9695

http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_gallery/TechnicalResourceLibrary/trl.htm
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-11-2016, 12:32 PM
DKheld's Avatar
DKheld DKheld is offline
Super-Experienced
 
Join Date: Aug 27 2008
Posts: 1,431
DKheld is on a distinguished road
Default

Joe - been following your thread even though I'm a Squarebirder. Always have an interest in the brake problems after doing mine years ago.

Know what you mean on the "keeping it original". I have a '60 Tbird that my Dad and Mom bought new.

About 12 years ago I rebuilt my entire drum system. (Even paid extra and waited longer for my booster to be rebuilt and returned rather than accept an exchange) Worked fine but my son was in a wheelchair so needed to haul a trailer. Made the "big" decision to convert to disc brakes.

At the time there were no complete conversion kits (and still aren't really). The only route was to use Granada spindles and have your original booster face changed to accept a modern disc/drum master cyl.

Once again rather than send off my original booster (which was then only a year or so old) and have the booster face changed - I opted to buy a rebuilt and modified one outright paying for the rebuild, modification and core charges (embarrassed again to admit it).

Kept ALL the original parts so if I wanted to restore the car as original I could.

Here it is 12 years later and those parts are still in a box in the back of the garage.

You'll enjoy the car much better knowing it's safer.

Does the '65 have a proportioning or combination valve already? - think you'll need one if not!

Good luck on the project.
Eric

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-11-2016, 07:23 PM
JoeVac JoeVac is offline
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 8 2016
Posts: 7
JoeVac is on a distinguished road
Default

DKheld.....nice looking bird,,always liked white cars. Yea,,when I get my new booster, will probably put the original MC on for awhole, but will change to dual MC to be safe. My car being a 65 does have front disc brakes. It also does have a proportioning valve which I rebuilt. Dreadind the job of getting up under dash to remove old booster and install new one,,not as young as we used to be.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:59 PM.

Driving, racing or working on cars can be hazardous. The procedures and advice on this website including the message board are opinion only. Squarebirds.org and its webmasters and contributors do not guarantee the correctness of the advice and procedures. The Squarebirds.org and its webmasters assume no liability for any damage, fines, punishment, injury or death resulting from following these procedures or advice. If you do not have the skills or tools to repair your car, please consult a professional. By using this site you agree to hold harmless the Squarebirds.org, its authors and its webmasters from any resulting claim and costs that may occur from using the information found on this site.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Any submissions to this site and any post on this site becomes property of Squarebirds.org . The webmasters reserve the right to edit and modify any submissions to this site. All material on this is site is copyrighted by the Squarebirds.org. Reproduction by any means other than for personal use is strictly prohibited. Permission to use material on this site can be obtained by contacting the webmasters. Copyright 2002-2016 by Squarebirds.org.