This will take you to the main site where there is history, technical information and other information on these cars.
This takes you back to the main page of the forums.
This is the control panel to change your password, information and preferences on this message board.
Click here if your lost your password or need to register on this message board. You must be a registered user to post. Registration is free.
Search this board for information you need.
Click here to buy cool Squarebirds mechandise.
Click here to support Squarebirds.org. For $20 annually receive 20mBytes webspace, a Squarebirds e-mail address and member's icon on the message board.
  #1  
Old 07-22-2012, 01:24 PM
tp tbird's Avatar
tp tbird tp tbird is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: Dec 17 2007
Posts: 188
tp tbird is on a distinguished road
Default 430 water diverters

I am working on my 430 and changed the head gasket due to a oil leak on the left side and I noticed in the front of the block water passage where the diverter is that the diverter must be facing down ,not up toward the head in the opening in the block,the guy that rebuilt the engine put them in that way.My question is this right?What I read on the forum it sounds wrong and if it is how hard are they to change in the car?Help
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-22-2012, 03:11 PM
KULTULZ
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tp tbird View Post

I am working on my 430 and changed the head gasket due to a oil leak on the left side and I noticed in the front of the block water passage where the diverter is that the diverter must be facing down ,not up toward the head in the opening in the block,the guy that rebuilt the engine put them in that way.My question is this right?What I read on the forum it sounds wrong and if it is how hard are they to change in the car?

Help
The right (passenger side) needs to face (inner opening) approx 0200 (looking @ engine from front). The left (drivers side) needs to face approx 2200 (see Shop Manual for exact detail). If they were installed directing coolant downwards, they are of no benefit.

The diverters direct partial coolant flow to the front of the cylinder head. The MEL has a unique cooling system that flows backward from say an FE.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-22-2012, 04:00 PM
tp tbird's Avatar
tp tbird tp tbird is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: Dec 17 2007
Posts: 188
tp tbird is on a distinguished road
Default

I guess that is military time 0200 and 2200.The one on driver side when I took the head off the front water jacket port on the block is closed off by the diverter,so I guess there is nothing going into the head from there and I have been driving it that way since the rebuild,is that going to hurt the engine and heads?Then at 0200 and 2200 there should be opening up to the head visible in the block right.If they have been installed wrong how hard is it to remove and fix them?I have put the head back on and got to thinking that it might be wrong.I have looked at the manual and don't see anything about them other than the how water flows and it is a little confusing to read for me ,I did see a diagram on the Lincoln forum that shows a good picture of the diverters you may have posted some time ago.

Last edited by tp tbird : 07-22-2012 at 04:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-22-2012, 05:49 PM
simplyconnected's Avatar
simplyconnected simplyconnected is offline
Slow Typist
 
Join Date: May 26 2009
Posts: 7,069
simplyconnected is on a distinguished road
Default

It's never a good idea to restrict coolant flow and I would certainly follow the correct procedure, even though it has changed over time.

Consider this: Coolant transfers heat VERY fast. If it gets too hot, it changes to steam. Steam transfers heat nearly as well (but not a good idea for bubbles to keep coolant away from the internal surfaces).

Bottom line... as long as you didn't run out of coolant, your heads and block are probably just fine. Oil flow also transfers and spreads heat around. Oil temps commonly reach 300*F because it bathes the bottoms of aluminum pistons. So, your engine must be hotter than 300*F before sustaining damage.

Always do everything you can to make your cooling system as efficient as possible. If you must 'run hot' before getting to it, use synthetic oil to ensure against oil breakdown. - Dave
__________________
My latest project:
CLICK HERE to see my custom hydraulic roller 390 FE build.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?"
--Lee Iacocca
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-22-2012, 07:24 PM
tp tbird's Avatar
tp tbird tp tbird is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: Dec 17 2007
Posts: 188
tp tbird is on a distinguished road
Default

If the diverters are not turned up so they divert the water up in to the heads what is the best way to get them out and turn them up facing toward the head opening.I think I saw somewhere they are pressed into the block.Has anyone done this before with the engine in?I have notice the engine does run hot if it idles for very long.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-22-2012, 07:33 PM
KULTULZ
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tp tbird View Post

I guess that is military time 0200 and 2200.The one on driver side when I took the head off the front water jacket port on the block is closed off by the diverter,so I guess there is nothing going into the head from there and I have been driving it that way since the rebuild,is that going to hurt the engine and heads?

Then at 0200 and 2200 there should be opening up to the head visible in the block right.If they have been installed wrong how hard is it to remove and fix them?I have put the head back on and got to thinking that it might be wrong.

I have looked at the manual and don't see anything about them other than the how water flows and it is a little confusing to read for me ,I did see a diagram on the Lincoln forum that shows a good picture of the diverters you may have posted some time ago.
For simplicity sake, let's say the diverters need to be installed with the opening straight up. It all depends on the manufacturer of the replacement diverters and the size of the openings. If you look into the jacket opening, you will see the hole(s) in the cylinder heads to accept the directional coolant flow.

The OEM diverters were made with a swage that allowed easy installation. Replacements are the same material diameter for the entire length so install and removal are more difficult.

You really need these as the coolant moves from the front of the cylinder head to the back (combining with coolant flow from the cylinder barrel jackets @ this point), into the back of the intake and through the intake to the thermostat.

It is called Three Stage Cooling but with the deletion of the block thermostats you have more free flow through the block at all times. This will not preclude the necessity of coolant deflection into the front of the heads.

If you do not find the necessary info here and The Lincoln Forum along with the MEL Engine Forum, E-Mail me KULTULZ@msn.com and I will send you some tech material.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-22-2012, 07:45 PM
tp tbird's Avatar
tp tbird tp tbird is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: Dec 17 2007
Posts: 188
tp tbird is on a distinguished road
Default

I am pretty sure I understand what it is suppose to do,I just don't understand why the guy that built the engine for me did it.Now I have to correct it and how to do it,get them out and turned the right way.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-24-2012, 11:03 AM
tp tbird's Avatar
tp tbird tp tbird is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: Dec 17 2007
Posts: 188
tp tbird is on a distinguished road
Default

Got the diverters out and turned up with the holes toward the heads.They were hard to get out ,worked all day trying with a make shift slide hammer,heat ,and a few other things.I got my jig-saw out made one cut on each diverter to get them out.The guy that I paid to rebuild the engine put them in wrong,they were facing almost 90 degree from what the should be.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-15-2012, 08:01 PM
63-4drpost 63-4drpost is offline
Experienced
 
Join Date: Feb 14 2009
Posts: 159
63-4drpost is on a distinguished road
Red face diverters

I tok the diverters out and threw them away!! Man am I stupid! That said, i know ther are guys in this forum that are lots smarter than me. when I rebuilt my 430, it took some thinking on my part to understand the water flow . Has any one thought of doing this? Put the head gasket on so the water passage is at the Rear of the engine. Then installblock the intake manifold gasket water opening. Then take out to frost plugs at the front of each cylinder head and tap pipe threads to make a fitting for the top radiator hose?? In the mean time, I need to get some diveerters installed, as the temp guage does go up on a long idle time, but not enough to throw out water. Thanks for all the knowledge you guys have,Henry
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-16-2012, 02:20 PM
tbird430's Avatar
tbird430 tbird430 is offline
Super-Experienced
 
Join Date: Jun 18 2007
Posts: 2,616
tbird430 is on a distinguished road
Arrow

My 430cid Bird had good diverters still installed from the original owners rebuild- years back. I had the heads off 2 years ago, checking things out & detailing the motor.

I had though about flopping the head gaskets around, as you had mentioned, but I was too chicken to try it out in the end.

I'm not running the 2 smaller waterpump stats either.

Makes one wonder though....

-Jon in TX.
__________________

The 1960 Ford Thunderbird. The WORLD'S most wanted car....

VTCI Member#6287.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:27 PM.

Driving, racing or working on cars can be hazardous. The procedures and advice on this website including the message board are opinion only. Squarebirds.org and its webmasters and contributors do not guarantee the correctness of the advice and procedures. The Squarebirds.org and its webmasters assume no liability for any damage, fines, punishment, injury or death resulting from following these procedures or advice. If you do not have the skills or tools to repair your car, please consult a professional. By using this site you agree to hold harmless the Squarebirds.org, its authors and its webmasters from any resulting claim and costs that may occur from using the information found on this site.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Any submissions to this site and any post on this site becomes property of Squarebirds.org . The webmasters reserve the right to edit and modify any submissions to this site. All material on this is site is copyrighted by the Squarebirds.org. Reproduction by any means other than for personal use is strictly prohibited. Permission to use material on this site can be obtained by contacting the webmasters. Copyright 2002-2016 by Squarebirds.org.