engine id and cam selection

[hunty]

hi guys my 59 is getting a respray and while the engines out I want to give it a bit of a freshen up. my problem is my engine should be a 430 mel but somewhere along the lines it ended up with a 352 fe.
now im not fussed in that regard as there are tons more aftermarket parts for the fe, but I need to know if its early or late, hydraulic or not, so I can order bits for it.
I also would like to know what would a good cam be, it will be running headers its still got the autolite 4100 on a standard manifold. id like a little lumpy idle but I still want it to behave.
any help would be great
thanks andrew

[YellowRose]

engine id and cam selection

Andrew, if you will post some pix of the numbers and stampings on the engine so that we can help you identify it. With that information, someone one here should be able to tell you when it was made.

[simplyconnected]

A good indication is the casting numbers. They will tell you what year the castings were made because FE castings went through so many changes. Look at the intake manifold and heads. Let us know what they show. - Dave

[hunty]

Cheers guys I'll have to wait till Tuesday because it's in the painters at the moment, where would the engine number be on these

[YellowRose]

engine id and cam selection

Andrew, this link might help you find the locations on the block or manifolds where the engine number stampings are found. After you find them on the block, write them down and tell us what you found. The guys here can decode them for you. Here is that link.

http://www.squarebirds.org/vbulletin...asting+numbers

Click on the various links in the above link and that should give you even more information. Hopefully, this will help you.

[hunty]

hi all, ok so I finally got down to shop to take pics of engine
aren't all FE's supposed have 352 stamped on the front, because I can't find that anywhere, anyway here they are
first pic is of the manifold
next two are of the engine

[simplyconnected]

C0AE denotes a 1960 part. (C is the decade and zero is the year.)
When you look straight at the front of the engine block, you should find '352' cast just below the driver's side head.

I said it that way because this can become confusing to many, orientation is ALWAYS done with respect to the driver. This is the way your manuals are written. So as he looks forward, the driver's side is the LEFT HAND side. Ford numbers their cylinders from the RH side (1,2,3,4) then continues down the LH side (5,6,7,8). Your engine rotates counter-clockwise because the top of the fan moves from the RH fender toward the LH fender.

[hunty]

C0AE denotes a 1960 part. (C is the decade and zero is the year.)
When you look straight at the front of the engine block, you should find '352' cast just below the driver's side head.

I said it that way because this can become confusing to many, orientation is ALWAYS done with respect to the driver. This is the way your manuals are written. So as he looks forward, the driver's side is the LEFT HAND side. Ford numbers their cylinders from the RH side (1,2,3,4) then continues down the LH side (5,6,7,8). Your engine rotates counter-clockwise because the top of the fan moves from the RH fender toward the LH fender.

Thanks mate, yes I was looking at the drivers side for the 352 stamp, but there isn't one, at least that I can see.
I probably should've also said the last pic is of the passenger side behind the alternator

[hunty]

Help!!

ok looked at the engine, again lol there is definitely no "352" stamped on the drivers side.
on the passenger side on the block is stamped
5750603
34C:2
22
in that order.
so according to all the posts the 430's and 352's have these stamped in the same place,
does that and the fact that it doesn't have the 352 stamp make it a 430? now I'm well and truly confused
thanks for all the help without this forum id be stuffed

[scumdog]

Just post a piccy of the whole motor!

[simplyconnected]

Put your crank at Top Dead Center. Pull out #1 & #4 spark plugs.

I use a welding rod, but you can use anything long, skinny and straight, like a coat hanger.

Stick it down #1 spark plug hole. (It won't go far because that piston is up.) Now mark the rod using a marker at the lip of the valve cover. Don't worry, it doesn't need to be exact, but close.

Now pull it out and send the same rod down #4. Mark it the same way you did before. Now measure the distance between your marks. That's the stroke.

Here's the breakdown:
Displacement........Bore..........................Stroke

332 cu in (5.4 L) ..4.000 in (101.6 mm).. 3.300 in (83.8 mm)
352 cu in (5.8 L).. 4.002 in (101.7 mm).. 3.500 in (88.9 mm)
390 cu in (6.4 L).. 4.052 in (102.9 mm) ..3.784 in (96.1 mm)
430 cu in (7.05L)..4.30 in (109.2 mm) ... 3.7 in (94 mm)

There is about 1/4" difference between engine strokes. Your marks should be close enough to identify your engine.

A popular swap is to upgrade from a 352 to a 390. All the parts are interchangeable (except pistons), Ford put the 390 in all of their cars and trucks, and it shares the same crankshaft as the 427. The advantage is a larger bore by 50 thousandths but a longer stroke by .284" which is huge. Think of the crankshaft as a lever. The same piston pressure will develop much more HP pressing on a longer lever. The 390 has a longer stroke than the 430. 390 parts are more available and much less costly.

Examine your firing order:
1542
6378

Andrew, you know each piston fires every OTHER revolution, but look...
When #1 us up, so is #6. While #1 is on its power stroke, #6 is on its exhaust stroke.
Think about that for a minute because on the next revolution, when #6 is at TDC, so is #1 but on its exhaust stroke.

Modern cars (and Harley Davidson's) fire both spark plugs at once. In fact they are wired in series, so Ford could eliminate a rotating dizzy. One wire comes from the coil and feeds #1 spark plug while #6 spark plug is screwed into the same block, sending return power back up its high tension wire to the other end of the same coil winding.

Ok so look at the firing order again;
1/4 turn passed TDC, #5 fires on top while #3 is also on top but in its exhaust stroke.
1/2 turn passed TDC, #4 fires on top while #7 is also on top but in its exhaust stroke.
3/4 turn passed TDC, #2 fires on top while #8 is also on top but in its exhaust stroke.
On the next revolution, the roles reverse. (6 fires while 1 is in its exhaust stroke...)
By timeing the valves to open and close in time with the crank, the cam is the controller of all this.
If you want the engine to run in reverse (like twin marine engines), simply grind one cam in the reverse firing order, and switch the field wires in the starter motor.
Many good mechanics spend their entire careers fixing cars without thinking of how this actually works. - Dave

[hunty]

thanks for all the help, according to the numbers it is a 352 fe.
all that doesn't matter though because I have a leaking block
so I need to find another block now
its leaking coolant out of the side of the block, not the welsh plugs unfortunately its been double checked, and the mechanic is a mate so isn't B.S.ing me ....ah well I think its 390 time

[simplyconnected]

How big is the leak? If it's small, you can drill a hole through the block and tap it, then screw a tapered pipe plug in. If it's a long crack, forget it.

In the old days, folks used to tap all those core plug holes and put iron pipe plugs in. The sheet metal stampings were a cheap substitute that everyone started using. Ford still drilled the holes then pounded core plugs in.

If you are keen on getting a 390 that may be a blessing in disguise because those engines have far more parts available and they are more reasonably priced (because of supply and demand). - Dave

[hunty]

its kind of weeping but it is a long crack my mate thinks it may be fixable but I don't know if I want to spend all that money and then have it fail.
I was thinking of going down the 390 route anyway so yes it may have been a blessing in disguise, even if it may be a pricey one

[RBT2013]

Conflicting rotor position and firing order

I am dumbfounded. I bought a 1958 Tbird and have done a lot of work to restore it. Car was running great but now that I am almost finished it will not start anymore. Eventhouh the car was running I have gone back to the basics and checked plugs, spark, distributor, points.. checked timing, firing order ... nothing. I dont think its carburator as it will not fireup using starting fluid. The weird thing is that in looking for firing order and TDC info I come to find out that TDC and rotor firing position do not match my motor and what is supposed to be according to diagrams I see where TDC should line up with #1 cyl distributor position and #6 for exaust. On my Tbird TDC for #1 cyl lines up with pos #2 for power and #8 for exaust. Is it possible this is not a 352 engine which for what I told is the original to the car? Firing order matches a 352 engine and is correct in the sence that the car was running. I hope this makes send i just dont know how to ask the question any other way.