351W 60 Tbird swap?

[PAGERACING16]

Is there anyone with a 351w swapped into their square bird who might let me pick their brain a bit? When digging into my 352 today I found some issues and I have a nearly fresh 351W that I am now considering dropping in. I know I would get into some fabrication which isn’t a big deal, I just want to do some homework before I decide which direction to go. Thanks in advance.

[simplyconnected]

I would use an AOD with that SBF engine. The rest is straight forward.

[YellowRose]

351W 60 Tbird swap?

I see that Dave suggested going with an AOD tranny with that 351. Here is a good overview of the AOD and what years to look for one out of a Ford, Lincoln, Mercury V8 truck or car.

https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/hm...n/1814951.html

[PAGERACING16]

Thanks. I was originally thinking C6 but the overdrive would definitely be nice since we want to take some extended cruises.

[Dakota Boy]

http://www.squarebirds.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=15372

check out the W in this car

[pbf777]

Terms such as: "drop-in", and "straight forward" in such a conversion may be over simplifying a proper execution of such. But, as long as: "some fabrication isn't a big deal", well......., O.K. . But be aware, NOTHING associated with the F.E. engine will just, "bolt-up", to the Windsor engine.

Scott.

[PAGERACING16]

I understand all the FE stuff will go. Fabrication isn’t an issue. I’m a competent welder and have built and raced several circle track cars over the years. I just want to get some insight from people who have been down this road before I set out about reinventing the wheel.

[simplyconnected]

Thanks. I was originally thinking C6 but the overdrive would definitely be nice since we want to take some extended cruises.

See? Everyone has a different agenda. I used the AOD with a 4:30 RE, which turned my 351W into a torque monster. I still used it to commute over two interstate highways to Dearborn. This isn't vacation-type of driving but frequently went over 80-mph for 15 miles.

Overdrive is great to have regardless of how you use it. BTW, it sounds like you know what you're doing, Pager. Of all the engines out there I love the 351W the most. Parts are out there and at good prices. Same goes for the AOD. - Dave

[OX1]

See? Everyone has a different agenda. I used the AOD with a 4:30 RE, which turned my 351W into a torque monster.

When I was looking, it was tough to get a built AOD that
kept the lockup converter for more than 350ish HP. This
was about 7 years ago, but I think most recommend
eliminating lockup if going much over that. I wanted to
keep the lockup, so that was a a major concern for me.
Not a big deal HPwise I guess if it's mostly a stockish W.

My parts car has a 390/AOD and they used a modern floor
shift out of something, and a modified stock console.

[Thunderherd]

Pageracing, and anybody else that has or going to do this swap. I've located a 351 W that I'm going to build and put in my '59 squarebird later this year. And I'm mainly going to do it hoping for better gas mileage. So, what can I expect gas mileage wise from a mild build, 351 W ? Aluminum heads, mild RV type cam for torque, boring if needed for clean up. My car is standard shift and want to keep it, so I'm also looking for a 5 speed. Not racing this car, just cruising and high way driving. My 390 is a good running engine, appears to be a rebuilt short block with original heads put back on (and no work done on them). But it seems to have a real aggressive cam in it, and I'm only getting about 12 mpg. And I don't see getting much more mileage even changing cam and heads. And about the 351, I've gotten opinions from probably not any better mileage, to probably 18 mpg. One guy even suggested mid 20's if it the 351 had fuel injection. And I'm thinking of using the FiTech fuel injection for it. Please give me some feedback here guys. Thanks.

[simplyconnected]

The 351W is my most favorite engine because Ford used them in cars, trucks and a host of other applications like marine and construction. It is a SBF that uses the exact same pistons as the 5.0 liter engine. They were offered both ways by Ford with either carburetors or EFI. New and used parts are offered everywhere at attractive prices. Serpentine belt systems and brackets for alternators, P/S and A/C are very available. Water pumps come in LH or RH, etc.

Carbureted engines will never be as efficient as fuel injection because they dribble fuel instead of atomizing the spray under 50-psi. This spray burns gas more completely which delivers more HP from the same amount of gas. Don't wait for the other shoe to drop because it is feedback, where oxygen sensors help regulate air-to-fuel ratios close to 14.7:1 regardless of elevation. This saves a lot of gas. Carbureted systems have no feedback so we error on the side of 'burning rich' to avoid detonation.

This is hard for many to grasp but in a carbureted engine we regulate fuel with the gas pedal. In an EFI engine we regulate the AIR. Fuel injectors are not tied to the gas pedal in any way.

In fairness to all engines, an FE engine can also be fuel injected using aftermarket systems. They pay for themselves. The restriction is, in my opinion, not all FE engines are supported by either Ford or aftermarket. For instance, Edelbrock makes aluminum heads for the 390/427 but not for 352. Edelbrock's large valves will scrape the smaller-diameter cylinder walls in a 352.

I still think either an injected 390 or a SBF engine is a great choice for the Squarebird. - Dave

[Dakota Boy]

Thunderherd; are you considering using the FiTech "fuel command" unit? It is interesting, but in the installation instructions it still mentions that a return vent line is needed

[scumdog]

Pageracing, and anybody else that has or going to do this swap. I've located a 351 W that I'm going to build and put in my '59 squarebird later this year. And I'm mainly going to do it hoping for better gas mileage. So, what can I expect gas mileage wise from a mild build, 351 W ? Aluminum heads, mild RV type cam for torque, boring if needed for clean up. My car is standard shift and want to keep it, so I'm also looking for a 5 speed. Not racing this car, just cruising and high way driving. My 390 is a good running engine, appears to be a rebuilt short block with original heads put back on (and no work done on them). But it seems to have a real aggressive cam in it, and I'm only getting about 12 mpg. And I don't see getting much more mileage even changing cam and heads. And about the 351, I've gotten opinions from probably not any better mileage, to probably 18 mpg. One guy even suggested mid 20's if it the 351 had fuel injection. And I'm thinking of using the FiTech fuel injection for it. Please give me some feedback here guys. Thanks.

Just for your info: Our ‘66 with stock 390 and Cruisomatic ( but with fully rebuilt carb and new vacuum can on the sissy) got up to 18mpg with a full trunk and four people on board when Mr & Mrs Yellowbird were over here last year.
When the mileage drops to 16mpg I start to wonder what is going on.
But then we have Imperial gallons (at about US$7 each!)

[Thunderherd]

Dave, thanks a million. Your advice on here is always appreciated. Also thanks for all the info on putting in a rack and pinion steering. Will be doing this in the near future also. Trying to decide whether to do it now or after I put the 351 in.
Dakota Boy - yes, looking at installing the FiTech. Haven't researched throughly yet, but one local guy around here installed one on his hot rod, took 2 four barrels off a 383 stroker and installed the FiTech and says he went from 10 mpg gas to 18. Another guy, the local DJ for a lot of car shows around here is putting one on his 58 383 stroker Corvette. I'm watching him to see how his turns out.
Scumdog - thanks for that info. By my figuring your 18 mpg imperial translates to about 15 mpg American. Not to bad, but I would like more. And I'm thinking a cam change and head work might get close. Those figures you quote really give me something to think about. Decisions, decisions.
Thanks again every body.

[simplyconnected]

I had a restorer buddy who put a SBF in his '58 Fairlane. I was interested at the time because I was kicking around the idea of retrofitting my 351W to the '59 Galaxie, so I took some pictures of his work...

He used one inch spacers under his motor mounts to raise the engine.









My point is, after seeing these clearances, do your R&P while your engine is out. It's much easier to access the steering column and your steering couplings. There is plenty of room for headers but make sure you use 351W headers, NOT 5.0 because the 351's deck height is two inches higher (and so are the heads). Ford commonly used 351W headers on Mustang Cobra engines in the mid 1990s. - Dave