Kim & Theo's '59 Clock!

[YellowRose]

Kim & Theo in the Netherlands, sent me an email saying that they found someone to fix the clock on their '59 Squarebird. Here is what they had to say. They also extend Christmas greeting to all..

"We wanted to let you know that the clock from our '59 T-bird is working again! Our clock lady spent quite some time to clean it and her meticulous work paid off!

Only one more thing we would like to do. As M.H. Fox describes, it would be great to put a diode or capacitor in the circuit to prevent the contact points from arcing. This would ensure normal function over a more prolonged period of time. We’re just not sure where to put such a device. We’ll try to figure it out somehow.

Merry Christmas in advance! All the best, Kim and Theo."

If anyone can tell them how to do the above, please post here so they can see it, or PM them. Thanks!

[sidewalkman]

Hi Ray

My clock has never functioned, I read the TRL stuff but am unsure where the contact points are, I think it's just a question of cleaning and oiling my clock to make it work, the fuse is fine so...

[captjohn]

Fox article and contacts

Where do I find the Fox article mentioned? I have worked on tube amps for 60 years but before giving advice I need to read the article. Most capacitors go between the contact points connections but voltage and capacitance is important to get the correct size.

Only one more thing we would like to do. As M.H. Fox describes, it would be great to put a diode or capacitor in the circuit to prevent the contact points from arcing. This would ensure normal function over a more prolonged period of time. We’re just not sure where to put such a device. We’ll try to figure it out somehow.

Merry Christmas in advance! All the best, Kim and Theo."

If anyone can tell them how to do the above, please post here so they can see it, or PM them. Thanks!

[YellowRose]

Kim & Theo's '59 Clock!

Hi John, I have just asked Kim & Theo to post the information regarding the Fox comments, so we can read it, or send it to me so I can post it. I tried to find some information on M.H. Fox but had no luck.

[captjohn]

Fox article and contacts

Thanks. I just found (not easy) and reviewed it.
He suggested using an IN4004 or IN5404 diode across the coil operating the points/contacts. Cathode end at points, anode end at ground. The parts are usually only cents each and can be found at Mouser Electronics that you recommended in another post or any electronic parts house locally.

Here is the link: http://www.squarebirds.org/picture_g...ock_repair.pdf

The schematic is figure number 14.

Hi John, I have just asked Kim & Theo to post the information regarding the Fox comments, so we can read it, or send it to me so I can post it. I tried to find some information on M.H. Fox but had no luck.

[YellowRose]

Kim & Theo's '59 Clock!

Thanks, John! I did not realize that it was the Clock repair information that I had put in the TRL some years ago! I am glad you found it. Now I know where Kim & Theo found that information at. I will let them know we have the source information. They should be able to follow that wiring schematic and add that diode themselves, or have someone do it for them.

[simplyconnected]

...He suggested using an IN4004 or IN5404 diode across the coil operating the points/contacts...

I do NOT agree with using a 'flyback diode'. Why? Because the first time someone reverses battery leads or a battery charger BACKWARDS, the diode will burn open.

Don't laugh, I've seen a guy who went many years with his battery connected backwards on a classic Ford. A garage installed it and he never questioned it because all the devices work with either polarity.

I DO recommend you use a capacitor and resistor in series. What sizes? Well, your points have a .22uf cap., so I would go with a 1mf at 250-VDC. The resistor can be 3k-ohm at a half watt because the duty cycle is so short.

Your clock did not come with flyback (or counter-EMF) protection at all so is it really necessary? No, but the 'cushion' helps. - Dave

[captjohn]

I DO recommend you use a capacitor and resistor in series. What sizes? Well, your points have a .22uf cap., so I would go with a 1mf at 250-VDC. The resistor can be 3k-ohm at a half watt because the duty cycle is so short.

Dave

I agree with you. I was surprised to see his recommendation of the diode as I was expecting to see what cap he was going to use.
For those who don't understand series, it means to connect one end of the cap to one end of the resistor and connect those as a unit where the diode would go in the diagram. 1mf means 1 microfarad. 250 vdc means DC voltage as opposed to AC.

[captjohn]

Thanks, John! I did not realize that it was the Clock repair information that I had put in the TRL some years ago! I am glad you found it.

I had to do some creative searching as the search engine won't use 3 letter words (like Fox) and it couldn't search a pdf file. All is well that ends well!

[simplyconnected]

To find anything on the TRL, hold down the 'CTRL' button and tap 'F'. This invokes the find feature in a new window. Then, type your subject like, 'clock', and all the instances of 'clock' will be highlighted.

Back in Squarebird days we still used wind-up clocks. Many people woke up to a 'Big Ben' by Westclox. They were popular and cheap. This was long before we used quartz so it was a 'given' that accuracy would need to be adjusted. No problem, most radio stations announced the time every hour.

Squarebird clocks ARE wind-up. Ford used a solenoid clapper to wind the clock spring. As the clock-spring wound down, a set of contacts closed, sending power to the solenoid once again to wind the spring (over and over). Six volt? Twelve volt? Hey, the same clock worked equally as well on either voltage because the contacts were only closed for an instant to 'bump' the clapper. Inrush current to the solenoid was great but only for an instant.

Clock accuracy was never good, cabin temperature extremes exacerbated the problem and we all simply lived with it. We now have quartz retrofits for our clocks. We also have atomic movements that re-adjust the time automatically. BTW, modern movements only require a fraction of the power to run the clock. <--This is my choice because I'm not a purist and I believe a clock should display accurate time (like modern vehicles). - Dave

[Kim and Theo]

to use or not to use?

Hi all,

Thanks for your reactions! The contact points actually don't look that bad after all those years (and after cleaning). Is it worth while to put in a capacitor and resistor, or should we just leave our clock as is?

If worth while, has anyone got an idea on how to? A schematic is nice, but where to connect to the actual clock and in what order (cap/res or res/cap or don't make no difference?).

All the best,

Kim and Theo

[simplyconnected]

...The contact points actually don't look that bad after all those years (and after cleaning). Is it worth while to put in a capacitor and resistor, or should we just leave our clock as is?...

I think you answered your own question. Exactly how much will adding a capacitor help?

We commonly use flyback snubbers to protect other electrical components in the system. A car's electrical system has 'noise' from the ignition that is unbelievable. The battery helps to smooth it out but sometimes the radio and speakers pick it up. Ford used electrical components that are nearly bullet-proof and very resistant to noise (spikes) including all the gauges.

To answer your question directly, if you want to add a snubber, remember that one end of the solenoid is connected to chassis ground. So, anywhere on ground would be one attachment point. The other side of the snubber connects to the 12-volt side of the coil (so does one contact). It is that simple. Series connections of a capacitor and resistor never matters which one is first but electrolytic capacitors will show which side goes toward the negative (or ground) terminal. Hope this helps. - Dave

[DKheld]

I've repaired a bunch of Squarebird clocks - even turning a few into desktop clocks
Could repair more if I had a way of restoring the face. There are companies that will restore the face but just not cost effective. Never have been able to duplicate the brushed brass/copper finish either (which always seems to fade more quickly than the other gauges) so as in this pic I just paint it with something close - after all - it's not for a show car.



Most of the time it just takes a good cleaning and oiling of the mechanism and burnishing of the points. Never have used a capacitor but I can see the advantage. The contacts corrode or build up carbon - even the clock in my car that's used pretty often needs to be hauled out and cleaned every few years or so.

Think if I were going to install one internally I would put it between the threaded voltage input screw (center) and the ground screw in this pic.



Externally it could be installed between the frame of the car / dash / etc and the other end to the positive threaded portion of the voltage input to the clock.

There should be a paper gasket between the two halves of the case. With that gasket in place the clock gets it's ground through the ground strap and a little copper tab on the back side of the clock case. These tabs need to be cleaned and aligned as well. I've seen a few that the little edges of the tab on the back case were dirty so the clock wasn't getting a ground. I always clean them and give them a little extra bend to make sure they make good contact. I believe the contacts on the back of the case are pointed so that they will scratch into the ground tab from the vibrations of the car and help keep a good ground.



There is supposedly a mechanism in the clock so that if you set it forward or back it will speed up or slow down the clock slightly
to make it keep better time.



Looked up the patent on it one time - can't remember who owned it when Ford used or bought it but seems like it was invented in the 30's.

Just about everyone that rides in my car asks about the noise the clock makes and comments that "Hey - it's even showing the right time"



Sadly some of them I just can't fix...

[bygrace]

There is a mylar foil used by model makers that I used to restore the gold center when I converted my clock to oil and amp guages. (Sorry, purists). It still looks crisp after 10 or so years. My son, a graphic artist, designed a font to duplicate the original, and printed a new face on peel and stick adhesive plastic. The gauges are a perfect match to the other guages. Maybe you could use such methods to restore clock faces. Mike

[captjohn]

There is a mylar foil used by model makers that I used to restore the gold center when I converted my clock to oil and amp guages. (Sorry, purists). It still looks crisp after 10 or so years. My son, a graphic artist, designed a font to duplicate the original, and printed a new face on peel and stick adhesive plastic. The gauges are a perfect match to the other guages. Maybe you could use such methods to restore clock faces. Mike

Would you please post a picture of this?