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  #11  
Old 07-12-2018, 08:08 AM
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John / Ray thanks very much for this, as it will be helpful in outsourcing parts for our members moving forward.
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  #12  
Old 07-12-2018, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jopizz View Post
With all due respect something that has worked in a practical application for multiple years trumps any list you can provide. If I worked on cars solely based on what it says on paper and not by trial and error I wouldn't be much of a mechanic.

John
HEAR,HEAR!

If I may point out, I think the discussion has missed the original intention or perhaps the obvious.

I believe the point of soaking the o-rings prior to installation was because thru experience (see above), one had found that the o-ring material WAS incompatible (one point for DAVE) with the soaking proceedure, and that it was this reaction effect that one sought for the end result of better famililarization between the surfaces leading to a superior sealing value.

And I'm sure the engineers, referring to their material compatibility charts, would be aghast at the idea, but in the end, why was one in the field searching for a solution to a problem the engineers didn't acknowledge or solve first!

Scott.

Last edited by pbf777 : 07-13-2018 at 10:32 AM.
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  #13  
Old 07-12-2018, 12:15 PM
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The service person Dave Hodges talked to did not indicate if Ford had issued a TSB outlining the soaking of the seals or the mechanics had found this out on their own. Obviously leaking control valves was a problem very early on (and it continues to be) and just replacing the seals was not a permanent fix. Having worked on many different Fords including full size and Mustang the control valves and the seals changed many times until the system was finally dropped. Like many things that Ford engineered in the 50's and 60's you have to ask yourself what were they thinking.

John
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  #14  
Old 07-12-2018, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbf777 View Post
...why was one in the field searching for a solution to a problem the engineers didn't acknowledge or solve first?...
The answer is easy (if you think about it). Back then, 'plastics and polymers' were in their infancy. The right compound wasn't invented until later. I won't pretend to be an expert on chemicals or compounds but this answers the question of why so many of our expensive 'steering rebuilds' are not lasting more than a few weeks!

It also addresses the issue of why Stop Switches fail after two years after using DOT-5 (silicone-based fluid). Silicone requires different seal compounds from DOT-3. Compatibility IS the issue.

The automotive industry wasn't alone with this problem. In the 1970s, we (Ford Manufacturing Development) acquired an 'orbital' press, manufactured in Poland. Brand new, it leaked like a sieve because their seals were crap. Our seals were marginally better.

So, mechanics like John were forced to find their own solutions while everyone else simply lived with the leaks.

The Parker handbook is TODAY's compatibility chart which includes compounds I've never heard of. I spoke with our contact at Parker today and he kept emphasizing, 'it depends on the application'. Later, I realized his point:

Not only is the 'O'-ring compound important but so is the transmission oil used, the environment it lives in AND the product's durability index.

Some people are using synthetic and silicone-based oils with the belief that this 'change' is an improvement. Nothing can be farther from the truth.

Some of the part numbers Ray posted in his Parker statement will NOT be suitable in Detroit as they only go down to -5 degrees F. 'O'-ring # AE152-70 (in the correct sized 'O'-ring) is in the temperature range we need for automatic transmission oil. Turns out, Parker makes 20 other choices in that same ethylene acrylate compound that are all compatible. Each compound is designed for specific applications. - Dave
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  #15  
Old 07-13-2018, 10:31 AM
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That really wasn't intended as a question, my punctuation failure.

But, thank you for the additional insight though.

Scott.
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