430 overheating

[orwin]

Hello - Well I solved the problem with leaking at the surge tank. The flange needed to be sanded 100% flat to seal properly. Now I'm able to run the engine long enough for it to heat up. No leaks anywhere.

I run without the rad cap for about 5 minutes, watching in the surge tank for movement when the thermostat opens. It does seem to start agitating at that point, around 185. I put the cap on and the temp continues to go up.

I shut the engine off at 210. The radiator and hoses are not warm at this point. I can't feel any water moving in the upper hose when I squeeze it.

I pulled the thermostat and tested in boiling water and it does open (guessing about 180 which is right). The radiator just came back from the shop and was flushed and pressure tested.

At this point all I can think of is a bad water pump. That is going to be $200 + my labor to replace it.

Before I go that far - anyone have other tests? Have you experienced a bad water pump?

Thanks,

John

[jopizz]

I doubt it's the water pump. Usually they pump until the time when they leak and have to be replaced. I would suspect the engine itself since you had the radiator redone. It may have a blockage or a lot of rust and scale inside causing poor coolant flow.

John

[Derbird]

The water jackets on my 430 were full of crap, including at least one set of frost plugs. Could also be that the water diverted behind the pump are missing or have holes in them. Also a rebuilt water pump is about $75 from rockauto

[Eric S]

You may want to use a radiator cleaning product that is supposed to remove all rust/mud from the circuit.

[simplyconnected]

If you have crud in your coolant jackets, it will only get clogged in the head gasket holes. This is the importance of keeping fresh name-brand antifreeze in your system. It contains a mild phosphoric acid and water pump lube. The acid neutralizes as it eats rust. When the acid is gone, rust forms and then pieces delaminate from the castings.

The only way I know that works is to pull the core plugs and wash the block out with a garden hose and a wire (coat hanger) to agitate the crud at the bottom. Years of sitting will plug the block like the one in these pictures:







Notice how nicely they clean up after being tanked...



Replace your core plugs with brass. I believe Amazon has decent prices for a set of brass FE core plugs. - Dave

[orwin]

430 Overheating - solved

My block was cleaned out before I assembled it.

Turns out that the problem was "air lock" - prevented coolant from circulating properly. With the device pictured (Lisle 24680 Spill-Free Funnel) I was able to purge the air from the system. It took about 40 minutes idling, and now my 430 is running like a champ. Maintains at 185 degrees.

Thanks to all for suggestions.

John

[Joe Johnston]

Awesome! Glad its running much cooler. I've been around the FE since a kid and never saw a funnel like that. We just ran them hard and fast and kept adding coolant till it stabilized in the reservoir!

This is great - we can always learn something no matter how long we are around these cars, we never know it all! Thanks for posting the picture.

[newyear]

Just curious to know how the funnel mounts-Use an old radiator cap with a suitable piece of plastic tube to keep it stable?

[simplyconnected]

I don't mean to step on toes here but I assumed the air was purged out.

The idea of the expansion tank is that it is the highest point in the cooling system's liquid level. Even so, what did Ford do on the assembly line? They evacuated the system first, then filled in less than one minute.

At home, we don't need to evacuate because time is on our side. In a 'dry' engine, I would purge by 'cracking' a heater hose at the manifold, just to let the air out before starting. Once liquid shows, reclamp the hose and start the engine.

His 'funnel' makes it easier to refill the surge tank until the system is full. Of course, if overfilled, the funnel needs to be emptied. But, idle speeds aren't quite enough for the water pump to give a good push. The engine needs to come up to temp so the thermostat opens, then rev it a bit. That's when all the air in the system will belch into the tank. Any remaining air will come out when the engine cools down. Cooling will draw a vacuum into all the nooks and crannies where small pockets of air couldn't get out. In order to attain that vacuum, the cap must be on and screwed tight. That's how modern cars do it but they use an overfill bottle instead of a surge tank. It's not the coolant that expands and contracts as much as the AIR inside the system. Once the air is gone, no more refilling. - Dave

[orwin]

The Lisle "funnel" is part of a kit that has adapters for most every type of radiator. It has gaskets and special caps to seal at the radiator. Then you add coolant to the funnel and run the engine. Eventually the air will burp out and the coolant will fill the engine. My "new car" mechanic put me on to this. He uses it in his shop to add coolant unattended.

John

[OX1]

I made a vac setup using an old AC vac pump, hose,
and big rubber plug with brass metal tube in it to
get air out of the brake system on my 14 mustang,
after MC and caliper upgrades. (vids are 53 and 74 Meg each, so download will be slow).

Fluid straight out of bottle.

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/MUSTANG%20GT/BRAKES/BRAKE%20BLEEDING/20180811_114133.mp4

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After vac process (not the same batch, later on I
figured I could do a higher amount, if I introduce
vac at a slower rate, otherwise, it would attempt to
suck fluid into pump).

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/MUSTANG%20GT/BRAKES/BRAKE%20BLEEDING/20180804_092422.mp4

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To verify it works on a whole brake system,
I installed brand new completely dry 4 piston
Brembos and did not bleed at all (I did bleed master,
as shop manual claimed actuating MC dry could damage
seals).

Started here

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/MUSTANG%20GT/BRAKES/BRAKE%20BLEEDING/20181003_165448.jpg

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After about 20 minutes, level dropped to here (just above seam on reservoir).

http://luxjo.supermotors.net/MUSTANG%20GT/BRAKES/BRAKE%20BLEEDING/20181003_171421.jpg

I imagine if you had a couple small holes drilled in
thermostat, you could hook this up and just leave it for a
couple hours (heck, all night), just like you would "vac-ing"
an AC system.