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**jopizz** · February 15, 2015, 01:08 AM

A lot of it depends on how many tail lights you have. If you have a single tail light on each side with a dual filament bulb like an 1157 the brake lights will be incorporated into the turn signal switch. One part of the bulb will go on when you turn on the headlights and the other part of the bulb will go on either when the turn signals are put on or when you put the brakes on. I believe your '49 Ford only has a single light on each side. What are you using for the turn signal switch.

John

**simplyconnected** · February 15, 2015, 03:02 AM

I'm with John here, we need to know a lot more about your setup. Is the dash from a Thunderbird or full size Ford?

What year steering column are you using and what turn signal switch is in it?

How many tail lights are on each side of your car? Are you trying to do sequential lights?

Do you have plug-in harnesses for a standard '65 Thunderbird or full size Ford?

This 'standard' 12-wire harness, where did you buy it from? Is it for a Ford car? How many wires go from the dash to the trunk and how many from the dash to the front of the car?

Are you using a fuse block? What engine are you using and do you need a ballast resistor for the ignition coil? What kind of choke, is it electric?

Give us a lot more information so we can better help you. - Dave

**Guest** · February 15, 2015, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by jopizz

A lot of it depends on how many tail lights you have. If you have a single tail light on each side with a dual filament bulb like an 1157 the brake lights will be incorporated into the turn signal switch. One part of the bulb will go on when you turn on the headlights and the other part of the bulb will go on either when the turn signals are put on or when you put the brakes on. I believe your '49 Ford only has a single light on each side. What are you using for the turn signal switch.

John

Thanks John. I am trying to use the 65 Thunderbird turn signal switch that's inside the upper section of the 'bird column, just under the steering wheel center "cushion". I placed the outer sleeve of the t-bird column OVER the '49 steering shaft and am using it for steering.

The '49 does have two element bulbs, within each light, they are stock tail lights with "blue-dot" centers.

I'm going to answer Dave's comments in detail John. Hope I'm helping.

**Guest** · February 15, 2015, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by simplyconnected

I'm with John here, we need to know a lot more about your setup. Is the dash from a Thunderbird or full size Ford? Entire Dash is from 1965 T-bird and is mounted in the coupe now

What year steering column are you using and what turn signal switch is in it? Using the T-Bird outer sleeve of column, OVER the stock 1949 steering shaft. I am wanting to use the original T-Bird switch, IN the bird column.

Are you trying to do sequential lights? No sequential lighting. Maintaining the stock taillights of the 1949 Coupe and there is only the two filament bulb, tail and brake, in them.

Do you have plug-in harnesses for a standard '65 Thunderbird?There is a harness from the '65 bird, going down thru the column and coming out just below the lower dash apron. I intend to use that harness, so as to utilize the Bird signal lever and switch.

This 'standard' 12-wire harness, where did you buy it from? Speedway Motors in Nebraska made it. I got it from "The Old Ford Store in Tucson.

Is it for a Ford car? Not specifically but deemed to be "Universal". (has layouts for GM and Mopar too.

How many wires go from the dash to the trunkThe harness supplied wires to the rear lights and come from a fuse panel mounted at the coupes driver side kick panel. and

how many from the dash to the front of the car? Let's see, tach, coil, park - signal - headlights, (hi and lo), ignition start, horn. *I think that's all*. 7 wires to front

Are you using a fuse block? Yes, came with harness.

What engine are you using and do you need a ballast resistor for the ignition coil? Engine is a 1953 Mercury Flathead V8 with a mild Isky cam. There is a Mallory Electronic Distributer and Hi-Volt coil too.

What kind of choke, is it electric? Manual Choke on a Holly 4 Barrel carburetor.

Also, right now I have Turn signal operation. ( I have turn signals both in front and rear that operate THRU the signal switch at the column top ). *son-in-law did it*

Now I'm to figure how to operate the brake lights, when a turn signal in ON. In other words, having turn signal Continue to blink when brake is applied. How does it "cancel" brake light signal to the light and allow turn signal to take over. I feel there is something missing from the T-Bird wiring - a relay of another fuse block or something!

I do have the fuse block and entire wire harness from the Thunderbird too. There are several "relay" type attachments as well as another "Tungsol" switch too. Maybe there is something in THAT harness I should be using. I just don't know much.

Give us a lot more information so we can better help you. - Dave

I'll be happy to answer any questions anyone has.
Thanks. Michael.

**jopizz** · February 15, 2015, 11:00 AM

Unfortunately the '65 T-Bird fed the stop light switch into a brake light relay in the sequential unit and then into the turn signal relay. It did not go through the turn signal switch in the column like most cars. Here's the link to the schematic that is in our Technical Resource Library. Maybe there's a way around it but you picked a real dusie to try and modify. A turn signal switch from a '64 will work if you can find one since it didn't have a sequential unit.

1965-8 Sequential T/S

http://www.squarebirds.org/Electrical/TurnSignalSequencer/

John

**Guest** · February 15, 2015, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by jopizz

Unfortunately the '65 T-Bird fed the stop light switch into a brake light relay in the sequential unit and then into the turn signal relay. It did not go through the turn signal switch in the column like most cars. Here's the link to the schematic that is in our Technical Resource Library. Maybe there's a way around it but you picked a real dusie to try and modify. A turn signal switch from a '64 will work if you can find one since it didn't have a sequential unit.

1965-8 Sequential T/S

http://www.squarebirds.org/Electrical/TurnSignalSequencer/

John

Thanks for your help John. Guess I'll try to figure how to "work around" the '65 switch first. Surely I'm smarter than any ol' electrical flow! ;O) Sure wish I knew how the relay does the canceling part.

I'll keep you posted and thanks again. Michael

**jopizz** · February 15, 2015, 12:09 PM

Yeah, the turn signal relay is a real marvel of engineering. More like a nightmare though when you are trying to troubleshoot it.

John

**Guest** · February 15, 2015, 01:27 PM

relay stuff

Originally posted by jopizz

Yeah, the turn signal relay is a real marvel of engineering. More like a nightmare though when you are trying to troubleshoot it.

John

But if what I'm thinking is true, I can just hook a relay in line with the brake lights that would operate when the turn signal is ON only. Turn signal off, brake light normal operation. (i.e.- just go around the brake light activation (or use it to power relay) and trade it for turn signal operation. Turn signal goes out- brake lights function normal.)

Or am I missing something else. Jeese, I really don't know.

**jopizz** · February 15, 2015, 01:37 PM

How many wires on the turn signal switch are you using. You may be able to find one that has no continuity when the turn signals are on and continuity when they are off. If you find one you can connect that to your brake light switch.

John

**Guest** · February 15, 2015, 03:58 PM

Not sure about continuity but

John I have some pictures I just took but not sure how to post them. I'm using 3 wires now from the column's 10 wires (two I figure are for horns) so 5 wires I'm using. I have signals, F & R, but I have now brake lights.

I will place images onto www.emmajeanb.com, in photo page.

Thanks - Michael.

**jopizz** · February 15, 2015, 04:11 PM

Michael,

You will not be able to post directly without being a member. You can use an external hosting server though. You can also email me the pictures directly if you want. My email is jopizz@verizon.net.

John

**jopizz** · February 15, 2015, 04:22 PM

I saw the pictures you have posted. On the switch the solid red and solid yellow wires originally went to the front turn signals. All other wires either go to the turn signal indicator relay that was under the dash, the fuse box or the turn signal relay in the sequential pack. There was no wire connection for the brake light switch. That went directly to the turn signal relay in the sequential pack. If you want I can email you the '65 wiring diagrams and you can see how it was originally wired. You will probably need to run separate circuits for the brake lights and turn signals and use some sort of switch or relay to turn one off and the other one on.

The black wire in the wiring harness feeds the horns. The color may be different on the switch itself.

John

**Guest** · February 15, 2015, 07:45 PM

tbird interior stuff

Yes, please email the diagrams John.

Am I thinking right; could I use a relay to tell the wiring that - hey brake lights, you can operate yourself to turn OFF while the turn signal is used then turn back ON when blinking is done on that side. That really seems too simple don't it!

If a relay just turns on or turns off, the equipment it's hooked to then why wouldn't it work.

What kind of relay would do that? (Shoot, I still don't even have brake lights yet. Haven't gotten that far YET! )

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'65 interior into a 1949 Ford Club Coupe

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